Post by NFA on Jul 29, 2020 17:23:56 GMT 8
kaysee
#3512024, posted on July 13, 2020 at 7:02 pm
Instead of one very long comment, I have split what I want to say into three long comments.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
1/
Over the past month, I’ve posted comments, videos, and links to articles, on the subject of political ideologies. It was not an idle or random topic. There have been ongoing debates (at times, heated) on the subject, and this led me into research, as I wanted to clarify for myself what these terms/groups mean:
Conservative, Liberal (as in left-wing), and Libertarian.
I invited others on the forum, who may have an expertise in any of these areas, to share essays on the topic – but there were no takers. The purpose was not for some high-level intellectual debate, but rather an opportunity to verify where we stand, and what we stand for, on this socio-political spectrum. I have seen from forum comments, that there are some who flip-flop across the ideologies.
Those who are troubled by the state of our country and the world can be classified into three groups:
1. Yes, there is a problem, but I’ll sit and whinge about it.
2. Yes, there is a problem, but it is too big for me to make any difference. It is like trying to fill a swimming pool with water, using a teaspoon.
3. Yes, there is a problem, but I’d like to play my part, even if it is just a tiny bit, in the huge pool.
For those in Group 3, I don’t have the answers. What I have are suggestions. And sharing from my experience. Learning from the suggestions and experiences of others. And hoping that others who feel the same way will join in, so that all our teaspoons together may fill a greater part of the pool, and we can achieve something. Even if we don’t win, we go down fighting.
I estimate from following the threads, that the majority of commenters here are Conservatives. I know that many are fighting the battle in their own way, sometimes quietly and anonymously, as it may be necessary to protect their identities.
I see two ways that we can work:
1. As Individuals
2. As a Group
It is while functioning as a group, that Conservatives fare badly. We can debate endlessly, scoring points and votes, but find it difficult to work cohesively, to unite, to achieve something. (I can, if anyone is interested, give you two examples from over the past month, here at this forum, to illustrate this point.)
2/
Working as Individuals
1. Writing letters to media, politicians, and so on
(already being done by some)
2. Sharing information
(as we are doing on this forum)
This includes not just information from other sources, but also examples of what we are doing at a personal level, so that others can do the same, if possible. Often, we do something from habit, but realise there may be another option, only after it has been shared by someone. And that simple change can make a difference.
3. Sharing /debating with others in our family-social circle if possible, (without bloodshed), in the hope that somewhere, somehow, we can shake their woke beliefs, and plant a thinking seed.
Working as a Group
Take a look at any of the woke groups: Extinction R, BLM, Sleeping midgets.
What these groups lacks in intelligence and logic, they make up in unity. However misguided and foolish, they mobilise the willing troops and wreck havoc.
Conservatives, on the other hand, will sit in their lofty ivory towers and write philosophical tracts, while down below, the sheeple smash society to smithereens.
No, we don’t get back with a similar destruction. But, at the same time, we have to learn how to use their methods to our advantage. We have the attributes of reason and intelligent thinking on our side. Instead of quibbling semantics, and engaging in pointless arguments, we look for common grounds to unite and work together.
Individual vs Group result:
You, as Joe/Jill Bloggs (the individual):
– Contact your newspaper and tell them that you are disappointed about a certain issue …. and that you are cancelling your subscription.
Their reaction: Some waffling, but pretty much …. Sorry to see you go.
– Or you contact the business that has pulled its advertising from a certain TV show….. and you tell them that you will not be patronising their business in the future.
Their reaction: Some waffling, but pretty much …. Sorry to see you go.
– You contact a politician ………
The reaction: Some waffling, but no action.
On the other hand, let’s say that there is a Catallaction Club with 47 signed-up members. The club also has some “followers”. Add to that, the club members have families, friends, relatives.
You, as Club Secretary (of a group):
– Contact your newspaper to complain ……
– Or you contact a business that has stopped advertising on a TV show……
– Or contact a politician ……
The reaction: Sorry to see you go? I think not.
Now, there will be naysayers. Ready to list the roadblocks, their arguments, their armchair philosophy. I have no interest in them.
3/
Again, I repeat. I don’t have the answers. The problem is huge. It has been snowballing over decades. I am trying to start up a process of constructive discussion, of what we can do, individually, and as well as together. Some suggestions may be unworkable, and need to be tossed out. Others may be good, or lead to something useful.
This does not advocate the use of intimidation, violence or the cancel culture. We support those who support the principle of freedom and free speech. Not gutless businesses, spineless politicians, biased media.
If you have no genuine interest, use your scroller. If you want to share what can be done, or what you are doing, (without revealing your identity), join in.
Over the past week, Rafe and Cardimona have been trying to get some action, by involving others on the forum to write to their local MPs. That’s doing something. Small steps to begin. Better than doing nothing.
There are many here who have valuable resources: Time, Energy, Expertise in specific areas, Ideas, Skills. Some may even have spare dollars.
Can we reflect and consider whether we can pool our resources in some way, to do something positive, individually, and together?
#3512024, posted on July 13, 2020 at 7:02 pm
Instead of one very long comment, I have split what I want to say into three long comments.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
1/
Over the past month, I’ve posted comments, videos, and links to articles, on the subject of political ideologies. It was not an idle or random topic. There have been ongoing debates (at times, heated) on the subject, and this led me into research, as I wanted to clarify for myself what these terms/groups mean:
Conservative, Liberal (as in left-wing), and Libertarian.
I invited others on the forum, who may have an expertise in any of these areas, to share essays on the topic – but there were no takers. The purpose was not for some high-level intellectual debate, but rather an opportunity to verify where we stand, and what we stand for, on this socio-political spectrum. I have seen from forum comments, that there are some who flip-flop across the ideologies.
Those who are troubled by the state of our country and the world can be classified into three groups:
1. Yes, there is a problem, but I’ll sit and whinge about it.
2. Yes, there is a problem, but it is too big for me to make any difference. It is like trying to fill a swimming pool with water, using a teaspoon.
3. Yes, there is a problem, but I’d like to play my part, even if it is just a tiny bit, in the huge pool.
For those in Group 3, I don’t have the answers. What I have are suggestions. And sharing from my experience. Learning from the suggestions and experiences of others. And hoping that others who feel the same way will join in, so that all our teaspoons together may fill a greater part of the pool, and we can achieve something. Even if we don’t win, we go down fighting.
I estimate from following the threads, that the majority of commenters here are Conservatives. I know that many are fighting the battle in their own way, sometimes quietly and anonymously, as it may be necessary to protect their identities.
I see two ways that we can work:
1. As Individuals
2. As a Group
It is while functioning as a group, that Conservatives fare badly. We can debate endlessly, scoring points and votes, but find it difficult to work cohesively, to unite, to achieve something. (I can, if anyone is interested, give you two examples from over the past month, here at this forum, to illustrate this point.)
===================================================================================
kaysee
#3512028, posted on July 13, 2020 at 7:07 pm 2/
Working as Individuals
1. Writing letters to media, politicians, and so on
(already being done by some)
2. Sharing information
(as we are doing on this forum)
This includes not just information from other sources, but also examples of what we are doing at a personal level, so that others can do the same, if possible. Often, we do something from habit, but realise there may be another option, only after it has been shared by someone. And that simple change can make a difference.
3. Sharing /debating with others in our family-social circle if possible, (without bloodshed), in the hope that somewhere, somehow, we can shake their woke beliefs, and plant a thinking seed.
Working as a Group
Take a look at any of the woke groups: Extinction R, BLM, Sleeping midgets.
What these groups lacks in intelligence and logic, they make up in unity. However misguided and foolish, they mobilise the willing troops and wreck havoc.
Conservatives, on the other hand, will sit in their lofty ivory towers and write philosophical tracts, while down below, the sheeple smash society to smithereens.
No, we don’t get back with a similar destruction. But, at the same time, we have to learn how to use their methods to our advantage. We have the attributes of reason and intelligent thinking on our side. Instead of quibbling semantics, and engaging in pointless arguments, we look for common grounds to unite and work together.
Individual vs Group result:
You, as Joe/Jill Bloggs (the individual):
– Contact your newspaper and tell them that you are disappointed about a certain issue …. and that you are cancelling your subscription.
Their reaction: Some waffling, but pretty much …. Sorry to see you go.
– Or you contact the business that has pulled its advertising from a certain TV show….. and you tell them that you will not be patronising their business in the future.
Their reaction: Some waffling, but pretty much …. Sorry to see you go.
– You contact a politician ………
The reaction: Some waffling, but no action.
On the other hand, let’s say that there is a Catallaction Club with 47 signed-up members. The club also has some “followers”. Add to that, the club members have families, friends, relatives.
You, as Club Secretary (of a group):
– Contact your newspaper to complain ……
– Or you contact a business that has stopped advertising on a TV show……
– Or contact a politician ……
The reaction: Sorry to see you go? I think not.
Now, there will be naysayers. Ready to list the roadblocks, their arguments, their armchair philosophy. I have no interest in them.
********************************************************************************
kaysee
#3512033, posted on July 13, 2020 at 7:12 pm 3/
Again, I repeat. I don’t have the answers. The problem is huge. It has been snowballing over decades. I am trying to start up a process of constructive discussion, of what we can do, individually, and as well as together. Some suggestions may be unworkable, and need to be tossed out. Others may be good, or lead to something useful.
This does not advocate the use of intimidation, violence or the cancel culture. We support those who support the principle of freedom and free speech. Not gutless businesses, spineless politicians, biased media.
If you have no genuine interest, use your scroller. If you want to share what can be done, or what you are doing, (without revealing your identity), join in.
Over the past week, Rafe and Cardimona have been trying to get some action, by involving others on the forum to write to their local MPs. That’s doing something. Small steps to begin. Better than doing nothing.
There are many here who have valuable resources: Time, Energy, Expertise in specific areas, Ideas, Skills. Some may even have spare dollars.
Can we reflect and consider whether we can pool our resources in some way, to do something positive, individually, and together?